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  #61  
Old 06-Feb-2010, 18:38
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I'd like to be a dictator of some random third world nation >_>

gotta dream big, eh?
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  #62  
Old 06-Feb-2010, 22:51
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Jesse the Great Tsar Jesse the Great Tsar is offline
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Originally Posted by Vmag View Post
For crying out loud, standardized health care is not socialist - we in the military have been doing it for YEARS with TriCare.

Then again, the military is, ironically, probably the single largest socialist/communistic organization in the US.
Its government run! Of course it is socialist! Government run healthcare is socialist. You connecting the dots here?
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  #63  
Old 07-Feb-2010, 16:59
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Originally Posted by Jesse the Great Tsar View Post
Its government run! Of course it is socialist! Government run healthcare is socialist. You connecting the dots here?
Not necessarily.

Government run does not = socialist

Government run = statist

Statism and socialism are two completely different things, I get somewhat irritated when people call President Obama socialist, because he isn't, he's statist.
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  #64  
Old 07-Feb-2010, 18:40
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Originally Posted by zakmac12 View Post
Not necessarily.

Government run does not = socialist

Government run = statist

Statism and socialism are two completely different things, I get somewhat irritated when people call President Obama socialist, because he isn't, he's statist.
Hes a progressive. They are the true faces of evil. By the way, another term for statism is state socialism.
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Last edited by Jesse the Great Tsar; 07-Feb-2010 at 18:43.
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  #65  
Old 07-Feb-2010, 18:56
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Originally Posted by Jesse the Great Tsar View Post
Hes a progressive. They are the true faces of evil. By the way, another term for statism is state socialism.
I will agree that Progressivism, at least American Progressivism, the kind started by Teddy Roosevelt, is inherently evil.
I must disagree with your second contention though.

My rebuttal is simple, Satism ≠ Socialism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
Socialism - a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Statism - the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state at the cost of individual liberty.
If, you know, Goldman-Sachs and GM and such are the hotbeds of Socialism in America, then, it's a fairly successful system if I don't say so myself, however, they are not. In America, we simply see state intervention in the market, and the state isn't an example of "The community as a whole" in America anywho, the state is it's own class, over top of the community in America, and has been for about the last 20 years or so, Administration after Administration.

Satism ≠ Socialism, just as Pro-Market ≠ Pro-Business

Kevin Carson, an analyst for the Center for a Stateless Society (Though they are a bit extreme in my book, I will quote them) recently stated it about the same as I would:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Carson
...Government interventionism does not equate to “socialism,” any more than being in favor of free markets implies a “pro-business” stance. Business interests are some of the biggest supporters of state intervention in the economy, and some of its biggest beneficiaries.
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  #66  
Old 07-Feb-2010, 18:58
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Jesse the Great Tsar Jesse the Great Tsar is offline
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Originally Posted by zakmac12 View Post
I will agree that Progressivism, at least American Progressivism, the kind started by Teddy Roosevelt, is inherently evil.
I must disagree with your second contention though.

My rebuttal is simple, Satism ≠ Socialism


If, you know, Goldman-Sachs and GM and such are the hotbeds of Socialism in America, then, it's a fairly successful system if I don't say so myself, however, they are not. In America, we simply see state intervention in the market, and the state isn't an example of "The community as a whole" in America anywho, the state is it's own class, over top of the community in America, and has been for about the last 20 years or so, Administration after Administration.

Satism ≠ Socialism, just as Pro-Market ≠ Pro-Business

Kevin Carson, an analyst for the Center for a Stateless Society (Though they are a bit extreme in my book, I will quote them) recently stated it about the same as I would:
Dont look at me, I read Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism
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  #67  
Old 07-Feb-2010, 19:00
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Originally Posted by Jesse the Great Tsar View Post
Dont look at me, I read Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statism
Well, that's where Wikipedia can fail sometimes, though I do agree with some points in it, it should probably be broken into several different articles and each expanded.
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  #68  
Old 07-Feb-2010, 19:02
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Jesse the Great Tsar Jesse the Great Tsar is offline
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Well, that's where Wikipedia can fail sometimes, though I do agree with some points in it, it should probably be broken into several different articles and each expanded.
lol I just read that its referred to state capitalism too!

and i saw this http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10321
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  #69  
Old 07-Feb-2010, 19:11
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Originally Posted by Jesse the Great Tsar View Post
lol I just read that its referred to state capitalism too!

and i saw this http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10321
Ah yes, the Cato Institute, good fellas.
They come in handy all the time for me.

Cato, ARI, and the CSS are all good for uses, policy and philosophy wise.
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